Sheng Peng: Defending Muzzin & Martinez The eye test and analytics agree! Muzzin & Martinez have struggled together recently. So how can they improve? Here's what to look for.

Nice write up.

Osprey will be here soon with his I told you so's...

DS put them together, its his fault. No chemistry. Why did he keep that paring for sooooooooo long?
Its DLs fault for not replacing another RH D like Voynov after he left.
LaDue can be that guy, or get a RH D veteran in a trade.

Amart & Muzz are built for another (RH D) player.
Those two together were destined to fail on there skill set together.

Previous Kings cup runs were with:

DS mixed D combos
2012
R Doughty / L Mitchell/ L Scuderi
R Voynov / L Scuderi / L Martinez
R Greene / L Martinez / L Scuderi

***********************************
DS mixed D combos
2014
R Doughty / L Mitchell / L Martinez
R Voynov / L Muzzin / L Martinez / L Mitchell
R Greene / L Muzzin / L Martinez / L Mitchell

Is rocket science needed for DL & DS? J H CHR GKG

Muzzin and Martinez are each not playing any differently than ever. Inconsistency in results doesn't mean inconsistency in performance. They're both playing the way that they always have, doing the same things right and the same things wrong. You want Muzzin to win one-on-one battles. When has he ever? He's always had huge problems when it comes to those. You want Martinez to not gamble, but he's always done that.

The problem with the two of them is the pairing, itself. It's not a good one. Both players are risky, offensive defensemen with suspect-to-average defensive games. When has it ever seemed like a good idea to pair two such guys together? If one makes a risky play, as they're both inclined to do, the other one often either doesn't get the memo that he has to stay back or isn't good enough to disrupt the odd-man rush. When you have two risky, offensive guys, is it any wonder that you have moments and even stretches of games where their mutuals strengths work in synergy and the same when their mutual weaknesses do? You can't expect a pairing to be consistent when the way that it's constructed means that it can look like the best pairing on any given night or the worst.

The team lacks all of the balance that it had with Scuderi, Mitchell and Greene, three guys who were the designated defenders for their more offensive partners. They don't have a single pairing that they can rely on anymore. Forbort, the rookie, can't be counted on to defend when Doughty goes on attack; Muzzin-Martinez is the same way and unpredictable, as I described; and the 3rd pair is a hodgepodge of inexperience and a lack of defensive skill to make up for it.

The frustration with the "inconsistency" of Muzzin-Martinez feels a bit like the same frustration that was had with the Doughty-Johnson pairing, does it not? That's sort of like what they've recreated here: a pairing in which neither knows which is the attacker and which is the defender, so they rotate and frequently get confused and miscommunicate. Recall what happened when the trade in 2012 ended that top pairing experiment and Scuderi was paired with Doughty, instead. That's what Muzzin and Martinez each need: a player who is strong on defense, always back to cover for their gambles and mistakes and with which there's always clear communication about roles.

Osprey will be here soon with his I told you so's...
- Stu17

Give me more credit than that, huh?

these are the most idiotic, full potato lines:

King-Kopitar-Toffoli
Pearson-Carter-Brown
Lewis-Shore-Gaborik
Kempe-Dowd-Clifford
Andreoff-Nolan (IR)

Forbort-Doughty
Muzzin-Gravel
McNabb-Martinez
LaDue

just unbelievable how honked up these lines are.

How about maybe doing things that make sense there D.S.?

Kempe-Kopitar-Gaborik
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Lewis-Dowd-Brown
King-Shore-Clifford


Forbort-Doughty
Martinez-Gravel
Ladue-Muffin


McNab > please get this dump truck off of our team


Use the first 2 F lines for PP 1 and 2

PP D pairs - DD and Ladue 1, Martinez Muzzin 2

Nice write up.
- poisondhearts37

Hey Buds...havent seen you around the Oilers threads in a while. We miss your calming perspective.

Hey Buds...havent seen you around the Oilers threads in a while. We miss your calming perspective.
- Larsson_fan

<3 you. I dont comment to much anymore. Everyone is to serious all the time. But the oilers thread is always home. Its fun out yonder.

<3 you. I dont comment to much anymore. Everyone is to serious all the time. But the oilers thread is always home. Its fun out yonder.
- poisondhearts37

Its not as fun now that we're winning games for a change. The Trolls still hate us, but have less to say.

Its not as fun now that we're winning games for a change. The Trolls still hate us, but have less to say.
- Larsson_fan

Yeah. But now you have to work with a winning team. Trolls will still be there.

Yeah. But now you have to work with a winning team. Trolls will still be there.
- poisondhearts37

I can't wait for the Oilers to win a cup...then We can read all thse classics...

" they won the cup in a lottery"
" the cup win should have an asterisk beside it"
" Now that he's won a cup ,McDavid will demand a trade out of that Hell hole"

I can't wait for the Oilers to win a cup...then We can read all thse classics...

" they won the cup in a lottery"
" the cup win should have an asterisk beside it"
" Now that he's won a cup ,McDavid will demand a trade out of that Hell hole"


- Larsson_fan

<3 you. I dont comment to much anymore. Everyone is to serious all the time. But the oilers thread is always home. Its fun out yonder.
- poisondhearts37

How sweet. A love affaie here on the Kings blog. Do invite us to the wedding. Ahhhhhhh...

Yes dear fans. Tonight our team lost and scored one goal on a goaltender, get this, STATISTICALLY WORSE THAN ZATKOFF. That is right folks. It is possible.

So of coarse Dean Lombardi will immediatly:
1. Fire the imbecile Darryl Sutter
2. Trade Muzzin for some forward help while he has some value.
3. Stop playing Amart so much. He should only play 16 - 18 minutes per game.
4. Give the C back to Brown. Kopitar is pathetic as any sort of leader and is playing like trash.
5. Waive Gaborik. Hope this guy retires or goes back to Europe. I loved this guy in 2014. Oh how things change.

Hopefully these five things will get us to a more prosperous future. I hope to wake up with the good news!

I can't wait for the Oilers to win a cup...then We can read all thse classics...

" they won the cup in a lottery"
" the cup win should have an asterisk beside it"
" Now that he's won a cup ,McDavid will demand a trade out of that Hell hole"


- Larsson_fan

True on all points!!!

Nice write up.
- poisondhearts37

Thanks!

You want Muzzin to win one-on-one battles. When has he ever? He's always had huge problems when it comes to those. You want Martinez to not gamble, but he's always done that.
- Osprey

I think you're underrating both in these categories a lot. While Muzzin isn't Chara one-on-one and Martinez isn't Scuderi-safe, I rate them both above-average in these respective areas. At the very least, they have shown to be much better in the past in these areas than recently. They wouldn't be playing 20-plus minutes otherwise for Sutter.

The team lacks all of the balance that it had with Scuderi, Mitchell and Greene, three guys who were the designated defenders for their more offensive partners.
- Osprey

There's nothing wrong with the stay-at-home/puckmover idea, but it's not the only way that works. Puckmover-puckmover can totally work, just for example, Muzzin-Doughty flourished with no clear stay-at-home guy. All that matters is if the partners play well together. I felt most of last year and early this season, Muzzin-Martinez were strong. Obviously struggling now. New partners might be an answer for them, but just as likely, they'll improve by year's end.

How about maybe doing things that make sense there D.S.?

Forbort-Doughty
Martinez-Gravel
Ladue-Muffin

PP D pairs - DD and Ladue 1, Martinez Muzzin 2
- MikeOxbyg

LaDue is hurt at the moment. got injured last seconds of Anaheim game.

I think you're underrating both in these categories a lot. While Muzzin isn't Chara one-on-one and Martinez isn't Scuderi-safe, I rate them both above-average in these respective areas. At the very least, they have shown to be much better in the past in these areas than recently. They wouldn't be playing 20-plus minutes otherwise for Sutter.
- Sheng Peng

Well, I think that you're overrating them, particularly Muzzin, who was never any better one on one. He's always been bad. For a "mobile" defenseman, he's actually a slow skater who's even slower to react and reverse direction. That's why he takes so many interference penalties (and gets away with many more). Quick players easily get the step on him and he hauls them down. It's also why, whenever he gets caught or the puck is stolen from him, he gets left in the dust and ends up being one of the last players back to his zone. Contrast that with Doughty, who, when he's caught or has the puck stolen from him, almost always gets back quickly to harass the player with the puck or is the second player back. How many times can you remember Muzzin being the first or even second player back after a mistake?

People just tend to disregard the deficiencies and mistakes in Muzzin's game when he's putting up points and recognize them a little more when he's not. Trust me; I've been critical of him for years, even when he was putting up points and it wasn't popular to be. The mistakes and deficiencies that were there as a rookie are still there. They just stand out more when the points aren't coming, like now.

BTW, I just need to point this out: that GIF that you tweeted showing Muzzin's "chops" actually shows him losing the one-on-one battle. He does seal off the board, which is a good start, but he doesn't separate the man from the puck. Reider gets free of the check with the puck. Muzzin ends up being really lucky that Reider just happened to pass it to a backchecking Pearson. If that had been a streaking Coyotes player, instead of Pearson, he would've had an unobstructed path to the high slot where he could've gotten a high quality shot on Budaj.

There's nothing wrong with the stay-at-home/puckmover idea, but it's not the only way that works. Puckmover-puckmover can totally work, just for example, Muzzin-Doughty flourished with no clear stay-at-home guy.
- Sheng Peng

That's because Doughty is elite and more than capable of both bailing himself out of his own mistakes (as I just mentioned) and bailing Muzzin out of his. Martinez isn't chopped liver, but he isn't close to being Doughty in either aspect.

BTW, I just need to point this out: that GIF that you tweeted showing Muzzin's "chops" actually shows him losing the one-on-one battle. He does seal off the board, which is a good start, but he doesn't separate the man from the puck. Reider gets free of the check with the puck. Muzzin ends up being really lucky that Reider just happened to pass it to a backchecking Pearson. If that had been a streaking Coyotes player, instead of Pearson, he would've had an unobstructed path to the high slot where he could've gotten a high quality shot on Budaj.
- Osprey

Defense is a team game, right? It's not luck. Muzzin shows well by cutting off Rieder, that's not easy, then Pearson helps. I wasn't using it as an example of Muzzin winning a one-on-one, though I wouldn't categorize the play as a loss for him either.

Hey dumbasses! Nuthin I say or do will ever get me fired. Peace out female doges!